Many business owners are afraid of competition. Others, such as Lachy Rowston and Raph Freedman of CrossFit Creature, say competition is a tool to hone your product or service offering.
“The competition [has] forced us to try and differentiate our product more and make it of higher value,” they tell My Business, adding: “We can just provide the best service that we can offer and at the end of the day, if people like what we do, fantastic.”
Returning to the My Business Podcast, the team reveals how they’ve stepped up to the plate by differentiating themselves from their competitors in order to grow a sustainable business within the highly competitive gym industry.
In this episode, find out:
- Why going cheaper doesn’t always work
- How they are leveraging a large social following to drive growth
- Their mindset behind competition and how they’ve countered resistance
And plenty more!
Adam Zuchetti: Thanks for tuning into the My Business podcast, Adam Zuchetti here, as the host. I've got Andy Scott, as usual. We were just having a great chat, off air, about competition, and that's why we brought these guys back into the studio because we want to talk competition with them. Andy, can you introduce today's guest for us?
Andy Scott: Well, sort of. We've got Raph and Lachy from Crossfit Creature. These guys you may well know them as well from the Mind Muscle Project podcast that these guys do, which is hugely popular. They started their gyms in 2014 with a solitary gym, up to three gyms now. Got about 280 paying members and it's a reasonable price to get there as well, so these guys are pretty serious about it. Adam, lead us in.
Adam Zuchetti: It is an interesting space and, as we were saying, there are just so many gyms about nowadays. You guys only started in 2014, so you're relatively new on the scene. How have you really grown a business that has been sustainable in the face of such intense competition within this industry?
Raph: Well, I'd say the first thing is something I was thinking about recently, is that your mindset changes so much when you go from a coach to running the gym. We’re both coaches and I was a coach at a Crossfit gym. I realised there was another Crossfit gym that opened really close by, and I was like, "Oh, that's awesome because, I don't know, maybe I could work out there or maybe it was like more competition for my services as a coach now. Maybe I'll get paid more now or whatever." I thought it was a really good thing.
Then, when you start owning a gym and another gym opens up really close to you, like, I'm filthy and I'm, like, "You are trying to take all the money out of my bank account and all the food off my table," and it's a really, really different mindset. I think that sort of mindset does help the gym sometimes because it spurs you more into action, rather than thinking, "Oh, that's cool." Then, you really go to work and you think, "Well, I've got to be doing well now."
Adam Zuchetti: As newcomers, though, you must have had existing players go, "Oh, here's newcomers. They're trying to take money out of our bank accounts. Let's just shut them down before they manage to get a foothold." So on the flipside, you guys have managed to counter that kind of resistance, but how have you actually gone about doing that?
Lachy: It's tough. In our industry, with CrossFit gyms and coaching-intensive businesses, you're not playing with anything more than maybe 150, 100 people. If you look at the gyms like Anytime Fitness or 24 Hour Fitness, Fitness First, they're contending with tens of thousands of people. There is a lot of aggressive competition, where they might go directly against what someone does and say, "We do this better," or "We do this different."
We sort of do that, but at the end of the day, there's only room for 100, 150 people at each gym. So you can compete, but if you compete too hard, you're just fighting over a very small pool of people anyway, so there's plenty to go around. We don't compete that hard, directly against these other gyms just because we know we're approaching our limits anyway. It's not going to do any good to go over there and slag them, and it's not going to look good on us, anyway. We can just provide the best service that we offer and at the end of the day, if people like what we do, fantastic. We know the people that like our stuff and we encourage them to join us.
But, when people come, I'm like, "Hey, look, you're not really a good fit, but you should try the gym down the road. They're going to be a better fit for you," just because I know they won't fit in with what we do. That seems to work really well.
Andy Scott: How much with understanding your competition is a driver to what you should do differently in your business?
Raph: Actually, it was really big because price is the big one. What happened was, we had a gym and we're a CrossFit affiliate, and then, there was another affiliate down the road, so it seems like quite a similar type of situation. We were X dollars a week, and then, they went to X dollars minus one a week and they were a little bit cheaper. We thought maybe we should go a little bit cheaper than them, and you realise pretty quickly that it’s a pretty silly game that you're playing. It's not going to end well for either of you.
I think that was when we started to realise, okay, just going a little bit cheaper is not going to work, and then, we went the other way. We tried to change what we’re offering to make it a higher value for members, so we could charge a lot more and go the complete opposite way. I guess the competition forced us to try and differentiate our product more and make it a higher value, like more coaching-intensive product, so that we weren't just racing towards $5 a week.
Lachy: I mean, any time you step your game up with price, naturally everything elevates, and price is the best way to do that. If you want know what it's like to coach a client, just say “Hey, I cost $200 an hour now," and see what kind of coaching experience you’d deliver for that $200. You might have an extra shower in that day. You may have 40 minutes of prep before the session and just be, like, head to toe, a new haircut and everything. Whereas you're like, "Oh, it's $20 an hour to train with me." You're probably going to be late, you haven't showered. You're not going to do a good job. You'd be surprised what happens to your business when you just say, "Okay, we're going to charge more," and you just put the price up.
Adam Zuchetti: But surely there has to be an element of delivery of value.
Lachy: Of course.
Adam Zuchetti: You can't just put the price up and...
Lachy: Of course.
Adam Zuchetti: ...In terms of value, what are some of the elements of value add that you bring to your members?
Lachy: The biggest one is the level of coaching and coaching experience. For example, we just had a new staff member join up. She's a two-time world champion triathlete, and she's podiumed more than 10 times on an international level. She was a professional for 10 years in triathlons, and now, she's, what, two years in a row 13th fittest woman in Australia Pacific Region. So we're talking someone that has an insane level of athletic experience across triathlons, endurance sports and now in CrossFit. That alone is someone who can charge a lot for their services.
You start grouping people together like that, people who were high-level gymnasts in the past and people that are some of the best PTs in the industry that have huge social media followings. You start to bring them together into a hub, basically. When people come there and they see the level of coach that's there, naturally they just think, "Wow, this is very different to Mr. X who’s at Fitness First, who just finished his Cert III and IV," the basic industry qualifications and maybe he's done it for one or two years. We're talking people with over a decade of experience professionally and athletically. It's a whole different level when they come.
Like I said earlier, it's only a 100/150 people, and the people that pay the most money will give you the least amount of problems. There's always a gym wall, it’s like how many members you got? It’s, like, what car do you drive? It's that sort of thing. People say, "Oh, 2 or 300 members," but they might have 2 or 300 members that pay them $30 a week and give them all sorts of headaches. You go, "Oh, man, that $30 is getting really tight on my budget. Can I go to $28, $27 dollars a week?"
We have people that pay $150, $160 a week. They go away on holidays and they don't put their membership on hold because you're just dealing with a totally different type of niche. Those are the people we're targeting. We don't need that many of them. That is really the difference when you start moving up your price tier in the market and you become one of the more elite services. I think that's a really good benefit from it.
Adam Zuchetti: You also need the staff that represent the value and the quality that comes with that higher price point. What are some of the challenges for you guys in employing staff that are really capable of delivering on that?
Raph: I'd say the biggest challenge is the way we set it up is that our staff members sort of less employees and more independent contractors that are like Lily, but also just in the way they run their business, they're really in charge of their own little tribe at the gym. Rather than just showing up for class and doing all the task that we've set them, they've got their own little tribe of members that they look after more intensely than the other members and they earn their wage off how big or small that tribe is.
It's really challenging to find somebody that wants to do that as good as that. Because it's a lot harder than just being told exactly what to do and when to show up because it takes a lot of internal motivation. It's like running your own little mini-gym, without all the headaches of an actual location because you’ve got to keep them motivated, keep them showing up. If they're not showing up, follow up them and finding people that want to do that, and then, just say they want to do that, and then, when they get into it not really want to do it, yeah, it's a special type of person, I think.
Lachy: We make sure that anyone that comes into our business like we were, we almost call them like entrepreneurs. If someone that wants to run their own business, but they don't really know how to do it, but they have that itch, they want to fulfil that need. And so what we do is we actually get all our coaches to set up their own brand and their own business. We help them do that, so they can scratch both itches, they can be a coach, they can still train really well and they can start running their small little business whether in my office or online programming, online nutrition coaching, start building your following on Instagram, Facebook, that sort of thing. So that they can earn a second income stream as well.
I know business owners would look at that and be like, "Hey, that's competition for me." Well, not really. You're just giving someone who has an amazing business and an idea and a passion, you're just giving them a home. That's kind of how we see our gyms.
Andy Scott: I think, and you've touched on an interesting thing there, there's an obvious, I suppose, threat to the business that if or Adam, say, came in and was a world-class trainer, unlikely, but built up a huge client base and people who, really, they don't necessarily have that bond with you, they have that bond with me. I come in one day and go, "Guys, it's been great. I'm off around the corner. I'm setting up my own gym. Ninety per cent of these people are coming with me." Do you see that as a threat? How do you counter that threat?
Raph: We've definitely thought about it. I think one thing that you realise is you can't write it into some employee contract and expect that to really do the work, because if people want to train with someone they want to go train with someone. I think that you've got to set it up in a way so that what people really respond to is their incentives. You've got to line it up so that they're literally better off maintaining their tribe at your location than taking them somewhere else.
If you can set it up so that it's a way better deal for them to not have to deal with fixed overheads and rent payments and all that stuff and it's way better for them to be able to run it at your location, I think that's the only real way that you can keep them there because the members will feel more attached to that coach, and they should.
Lachy: They do.
Raph: If they feel more attached to us, then I have to be there every single day. I want them to be like that. But as Lachy said, if you help them set up their own brand and make sure they’re happy with what they’re doing and they can earn extra money maybe with some extra stuff, then why would they go and take on all that risk and have all those extra bills to pay if they’re better off maintaining their tribe at your gym?
Adam Zuchetti: Effectively, you’re adding value not just for your customer base, but also for your trainers as contractors.
Adam Zuchetti: Are they perfectly aligned, or is there a bit of conflict between the value adds needed for those of those different channels?
Lachy: Yeah, it’s a good question. Definitely can sometimes favour their own business, at some point, but we’ve also set up a way … I should clear that. Financially, it can be a little bit better sometimes for their own business to put a bit more time into that, basically because they can charge whatever price they want, whereas if they’re working within our framework when they work for our business. But with us, we’ve set up a way that kind of suits their lifestyle better, so there’s more time incentive, so they can earn good money, but have more time. Whereas, if they do their own thing, then essentially they’re going to spend more time and maybe earn more money, but it’s more stressful, they get tired more easily, it’s longer hours.
The big incentives for us and I know it’s how we attracted one of our best coaches was, like, he is doing a maybe 50, 60 hour face-to-face coaching week, so 50 to 60 face-to-face sessions personal training, which is insane. Yes, it was good money, but I was, like, “Look, I can’t offer you that kind of money, but you can work ... You can get up to like 80 per cent of that, but work like 20 per cent of that amount," because he was just completely burnt out. It’s a huge problem in our industry so there is balance there. It's, like, yes, do a little bit with your business to bump up what you’re earning, but do more with us because you’ll get more of your time back. Essentially, that’s the most valuable thing you can offer someone.
Andy Scott: We spoke about competition earlier and I mean quickly do you prefer stronger competition, or competition that’s easier to beat?
Lachy: We’ve never had really strong competition. There is some really strong competition out there, but location-wise, it doesn’t competition with us. That’s the beautiful thing about CrossFit. As soon as one in the area and is doing well, not many people dare to go near them because they know it’s going to be a tough job to beat them out. We have had some minor competition in the past, but like we said earlier, it’s more just a great lead gen tool for us. But we do them a good service as well. If we get someone on the phone, they want something a little bit cheaper, who doesn’t want to commit for as long and just isn’t that into their training and doesn’t want the nutrition, doesn’t want the lifestyle coaching, then we go, “Hey, down the road, tell them we sent you and enjoy.” It’s a good way to get rid of those people.
Raph: Like Lachy said earlier, you don’t need that many people for the type of gyms we are running. When you’re in somewhere like Sydney and there’s so many people, even if you’re literally right next door to each other, there’s still plenty of people to go around for both gyms to be completely full. The reality is almost if more people are working around talking about type of CrossFit style training that we do, more people are going to hear about and come around to the gym. It’s not like a gym where you need 10,000 people and you literally probably can't have two on the same street. There’s places in America where there are four or five on the same street and they’re all successful. It can make it tough sometimes when you feel like, “Oh, I can see how many members are going there and they’ll come to me,” or “I’ll book someone in for a consult, and then I ... they don't show up. I call them and they went to the other gym.” That happens and it hurts a bit when it does happen, but the reality is you don’t need that many people so you can both be packed.
Andy Scott: I guess that leads to a follow-up question. You obviously opened up other gyms. How did you pick those locations?
Lachy: Well, we didn’t. They kind of fell into our lap. All three gyms we’ve opened, we didn’t open them from scratch. We actually bought existing gyms.
The first one got offered to us. I grew up in the North Shore, was very sheltered, it was very traumatic. When I went to Marrickville for the first time, I wasn’t sure about the area because I’ve never been to Inner West before. But after speaking to some people, it seemed like a good idea and it was a really great space. It’s sort of the last remaining industrial area that’s close of the city. Alexandria is sort of like that, but it’s going slowly, so we got Marrickville originally.
Then, Edgecliff was actually one of the … got offered to us by an old employee of Raph and Rory, the other business partner, so as you said – employer, sorry. She said, “Look, my Edgecliff location is not doing that well. Do you guys want to take it over? You know some of the membership base, you’ve coached a few times. Raph was in the East, also sheltered, and then, we’re like, “Yeah. Awesome. Let’s do it.”
Her first gym in Bondi, same thing. She’s, like, "Look, I don’t really want to run these anymore. Do you want my Bondi location?” and we said yes. That’s how we got all three, yeah, that’s how we got the location. They're relatively close together as well.
Andy Scott: Do you find it more important, then, to … Because it doesn’t sound there was a hell of a lot of planning in that. Are you advocates of "Just say yes," and then, try and slow down?
Raph: No, but … because I think it can go pretty badly, and I think I’ve seen friends with stuff like that that doesn’t work out a lot to go back. There wasn’t a lot of planning, but there’s quite a lot of experience. Edgecliff and Bondi, I’ve been coaching there for nearly four years, so I knew exactly what was going on. I knew the members and I knew how successful it could be. I’ve seen it and I was there. I was like, cool. I think this can work. Whereas, if I’d never been those gyms before, I think that would have been a maybe less wise move.
Adam Zuchetti: Coming back to competition and something that you guys have done very well is kind of diversifying your offering, I suppose. The gyms are the core business, but you’ve got the podcast, the Mind Muscle Project. You also got into products and supplements and things like that. Can you talk us through how that came about? Was it a really conscious decision, or did it again kind of fall in your lap? What does it actually meant for the business?
Raph: The chocolate really fell into our lap. My dad retired and wanted to do something, and me and my other business partner have the idea of doing this chocolate business.
Adam Zuchetti: What is the chocolate, just for our listeners.
Raph: No, it’s a pre-workout dark chocolate. It’s called PEAK chocolate and, yeah, we just put in some supplements that work that everyone takes pre-workout because that’s what you take and it’s effective. We've put into dark chocolate because it taste really good and it’s healthy. It is quite separate to the gym. I wouldn’t say it really helps the gym, but it’s in the same industry so you can take advantage of the connections that you’ve already got in the gym. I think everything like that does also support the gym when they found out, “Oh, cool. You guys have got a podcast,” or “Cool. You got a chocolate.” It’s like, “Oh, this is a really cool gym to be at.” It’s something different that other gyms don’t have that ... We’re busy with our time and I think it does support the gyms a little bit.
Andy Scott: Do you ever worry that you’ve given yourself too many balls to juggle?
Lachy: I think the more balls that you juggle, the better you do at juggling those balls. I know it kind of sounds counterintuitive, but when you realise that you can’t just spend all your time on one thing, you have to be so careful with how you wake up every day and spend your time that you become a master of organisation. Then you really start to pick out the stuff in your day which is almost poisonous to your overall goals.
Having three gyms was a big one, so we started to really break up our roles and our time much better and we’re far better at that now. We also just don’t waste time on … We used to spend, what, how much time on Facebook Messenger just doing the most ridiculous back-and-forth. I’m sure if we went through those archives it would just be an embarrassment. But now, we have like very specific roles of what we can talk about online. If something gets a little bit out of hand, we just speak about it in person, stuff like that.
Also, just being really strict on how we do sales as well. We used to do a lot of in-person sales. What we realised is that’s a massive waste of time compared to sales on the phone, so just learning things like that make you way more efficient with your time. Same with the podcast. Making sure that we have a tight schedule, we have very strict meeting times, we make sure we get as much recording done as possible.
Just knowing all that we’re much more respectful of each other’s time as well. I’m not going to just call him back, “Oh, so how was your workout today? Tell me about it.” Well, we may have done that in the past. “What time did you get?” Spend the hour just chatting on the phone just for no reasons. We just don’t have time for that anymore. Having more balls to juggle has actually been a really good thing for our efficiency, for sure.
Raph: The balls sort of support each other a bit. I probably wouldn’t go do something that’s totally different. I have no interest in stuff that’s outside health and fitness in a lot of ways because I know that would take a whole more of my time, but it’s like the podcast – we’ve already got the gym. I really want to speak to this person about a question I’ve got about strength training, let’s put on a podcast. They’re different balls, but they’re fairly interrelated and they all support each other.
Adam Zuchetti: It makes sense that you’ve gone a big efficiency drive to fit everything in, but do you find that you reach a point of saturation where there is just not enough time to do everything you need? If so, how do you really deal with that and start managing that workload that is just too big for one person?
Lachy: It can be managed, but I just have to know what is the priority at the time. For example, with getting this book done, I just know, okay, I have to be really punch out this content. I’m just going to do six, seven-hour days, and I’m just going to put everything else on hold as best as I can. I’ll just say, "Okay, what are the most important things that I personally need to be doing in the gyms?" Okay, answering the sales calls. That’s all I’m going to do while I’m writing this book and I just have absolute focus writing the book. Whereas, maybe I’ll go, “Oh, okay. Yeah, that rower needs fixing. I’ll go downstairs. I’ll pull it apart. I’ll see what’s wrong. I’ll clean it.” That might take two or three hours. I’m just going to not do that. That’s just going to go on the backburner.
But all those different things, they’re going to get written down, so I don’t just forget about them. Because any time you’re in a really important task, you always have things that come into your mind where you’re like, “Oh, yeah, that thing. That’s really important,” and you go and do that thing. Instead, I’ll just write it down and I’ll just kind of … this piece of paper just grows and grows throughout the week, but I just stay focused on the task. I said, “I've set out to do X, I’m going to get this done. I’m going to finish it. I’m not going to go to sleep till it gets done, and then, I can get to the other stuff.” Just being disciplined with doing that, with saying, “This happens first before anything else.” Multitasking, that kills my productivity.
Raph: I would say for me I'm definitely not master of anyway, but one thing I’ve realised … because we don’t really have defined jobs exactly. There’s some stuff that I have to do every week, and some stuff that I should do every week. The haves just definitely get done a lot more than the should dos, but I try not to just make myself feel too guilty about them now. Because there’s so many things I could do every day on every single thing to make them better because we’re like owners of the businesses, instead of just employees. I try and just be like, okay, I’m can't do all those things right now. Yeah, I’ll put them on like a Sunday list and just not letting myself feel really guilty about it when I see how much better it could be doing. Because if we just sat down today, we did 12 hours on some marketing thing, the gyms would go better. But I just can’t make myself feel super guilty about that because it’s not possible to do everything. I try and just give myself a break on it sometimes and understand that it’s like a sacrifice I make to juggle a few of the balls.
Andy Scott: In the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, they have these four quadrants. I don't know if you guys know about them, but it’s like Important, Urgent, Not Important, Urgent, and then, it’s like Not Important, Not Urgent, and whatever the other ones is. Anyway, it’s a good exercise to practise. When you just do that for each business, you can always just revisit those quadrants and see where you’re spending your time. That’s something I like to do. It’s like a mental exercise each day, and just really try and get to the things that I know are in whatever the second quadrant is. It’s the most important one. Just making sure that I do a little bit of that every single day because that’s what really drives the progress.
Most people get caught up in the social media and the email, and the non-important stuff, but it’s very urgent at the time. When you can just tell yourself it’s okay to just not get back to that email straightaway or not look at Facebook, not call this person back necessarily straightaway, you get a lot more done at the end of the day.
Adam Zuchetti: It’s quite clear that you’re really big on reading and listening to podcasts and speaking to people, just constantly learning. As a business owner, what are those key things, those key sources that you go to for inspiration, for advice, to learn?
Lachy: We divided up our roles, so I do all the marketing stuff. I listen to marketing podcast, I read marketing books. Big guy I’m into is Russell Bronson. He has a book called Expert Secrets, which you just bought out, and he also has a podcast which is really popular. That’s sort of the main one I’m into at the moment, but I know Raph’s into some finance stuff. You read some finance books.
Raph: I think the finance stuff is really good and I find particularly for that, podcasting can be really one of the best ways because you can learn the principles, you can listen to some audio books or some novel books, but if you can just get some tips that are really applicable to like gyms or small businesses in general, I really enjoy that stuff. I find podcast can be easy to listen to. Maybe I just respected it more when it’s coming from someone that has done exactly what I’m trying to do so maybe it just resonates with me more, so I am a huge fan of podcasting.
Something I’ve been trying to do recently with it is rather than just listen to the most recent podcast that come up in my feed, which is how I normally do it, I’ll, say, "I really want to learn about this person or this topic," and then, I’ll try and download nine different podcast in one go on that topic, and then, listen to them all over, like, two weeks. I actually think I learn more that way because you’re so interested in it and you hear like 10 hours in a week. Maybe I’ll make notes on it in my Evernote on my phone as I go, and then, I learn about that thing. Particularly with like finance stuff for the gym that’s how I’ll do it. I just pick a topic, download the podcast, and it’s like your own little one-week university.
Adam Zuchetti: Something else I want to touch on, just to finish up with, Raph, you sort of mentioned try not feel guilty about things that you can’t fit in and for a lot of business owners, they feel that fitness is just something they can’t fit into their daily lives and their daily schedules. I guess as sort of fitness experts yourself, are there some tips that you can give to our listeners to help them sort of build some sort of fitness regime, some exercise regime, into their lives that isn’t going to really distract from their core focus, their core business?
Raph: Definitely don’t do Crossfit and try to qualify for regionals. That’s the number one I would recommend. I struggle with this the most and I’ll say this is probably what makes me feel the most guilty is when fitness takes up a lot of time. Because, it can take up a lot of time and there’s always more you could be doing for it.
I find with just one is something we got from a guy we had on the podcast called Max El-Hag. He was talking about you have to define why you’re doing the fitness. For me, I’m always healthy and fit, so that’s easy and that’s not really why I do it. But if I can define it in a good way, that will motivate me to do it. I realise I do a podcast, I have the gyms and the chocolate and whatever and I have to be inspirationally fit in some way to do those things. It’s not just a waste of time and a hobby for me that it’s like an indulgence because I have to inspirational in some form. If I’m not, I don't think I can be inspirational fitness doing fitness for 45 minutes a day. I think that’s enough to be quite fit and healthy, but it’s not enough to be inspirational with my fitness. I do do more than that and I just define it in a way where I feel like this is part of my work because I have to that person to lead from the front. That, for me, takes away the guilt. Once I’ve taken away the guilt from spending two hours training, then it’s easy because I love training, so it’s not hard for me to get motivated to do it.
Andy Scott: If you're someone who doesn’t love affair ... exercise is just an absolute chore and something that the doctor tells me I should be doing …
Raph: You have to find something that you really enjoy. I think there’s some type of fitness that people would really enjoy, and then, if there’s some bits of fitness that you know are important for you. Like for me stretching, I don’t like stretching, but I know it’s important, then I’ve got to sit down. I’ve got to write down all the reasons why it’s going to affect all the things that I do enjoy if I don’t do that thing. Maybe like love cycling, that’s good. It's easy to get yourself cycling, but you know you have to go to the gym twice a week. You’ve got to start writing down the reasons, like, hey, if I don’t go to the gym, I’m going to end up with like the worst posture because I’m bent over a bike. My bone density is going to go away. By the time I’m 60, I’ll barely be able to ride my bike anymore. If you can’t list down those reasons, I think usually you can find overwhelming motivation to go to the gym when you need to.
Adam Zuchetti: Yeah, that sounds like a really good strategy. Take away the emotional guilt of not doing something and putting a very factual list and reasons why it should be done so that you can clarify in your own mind.
Raph: It works for me, I guess it’s just how your head works.
Lachy: I’m also a little bit different is I don’t love training at the same level that Raph loves training. For me, it is actually more of a battle each day to make myself do something and I know that. I can very easily just do business stuff all day because I’m very passionate about it and I can just forget about training and push it to the side. Again, I know I have to set an example for people, that’s one reason, but it doesn’t motivate me to do it.
What really does is making an investment. What I do is I pay a coach overseas, pay him too much money, but it’s enough for me to be, like, accountable to someone and I don’t do it myself. It’s too hard to do it yourself when you get home and you’re busy from work or you’ve got kids, you’re really tired, you don’t want to wake up. But if you’re making an investment, and enough of an investment ... I’m not talking about like $5 a week, $10 a week to this people at Anytime Fitness or 24 Hour Fitness. I mean something significant that hurts a little bit. That is what is going to motivate you to stay with it and have that one-on-one relationship with a coach. You can’t just be in the spin class. They might not know your name. They know, “Oh, there’s the regular over there,” but you need someone who knows your goals, so you’ve sat down with you, talked to you. They understand what are the barriers that stop you from coming in.
That’s why personal training is going to be around forever because it works so well because there’s that one-on-one relationship. I think anyone that can, yeah, pay a little bit of money that stings a little bit and have that one-on-one relationship with anyone, whoever it is, that’s what I find for me really motivates me and it’s what motivates our clients as well.
Adam Zuchetti: For guys as young as yourselves, I think you’re wise beyond your years so it’s been great having you in, but unfortunately, we’re out of time so we're going to have to leave it there.
Lachy: Thanks for having us.
Adam Zuchetti: But, yeah, thanks so much for coming in and sharing your story with us. It’s been really good. Andy, anything to add?
Andy Scott: No, no. Just great to have you in, guys. Yeah, it's good to talk to you. You know a lot of stuff about a lot stuff and, yeah, summarising that in writing to hear. If anyone wants to discover your Crossfit Creatures or your podcast, where should they go?
Lachy: CrossfitCreature.com, and the Mind Muscle Project on Instagram and Facebook and on iTunes.
Andy Scott: Great stuff.
Adam Zuchetti: All right. Brilliant.
Lachy: Thanks for having us.